hope u like this! LOL

http://www.corriere.it/Media/Foto/2003/08_Agosto/27/vignetta.jpg

“And, on the other hand, there are much more AC systems in america, which means that such a thing won’t happen, or at least in lower proportions.”

may someone explains me the “AC system” please ?  for i can understand the meaning of this sentence :)

tell me how could any aspect of the American health care system makes the French one better and less expensive in absolute value

Like I mentioned before 40 million Americans are without health insurance, how many French can claim such a prestigious honor?

Are you vaguely aware of the prohibitive costs of prescription medications in the US? That’s why MILLIONS of Americans get their medical subscriptions filled in (oh God) socialist Canada!

Have you compared US mortality rates/ Life expectancy versus any other industrialized nation? Did you know that Japan, which has an infant mortality rate that is half that of the United States and a life expectancy average 5.2 percent better, pays only 44 percent of what Americans pay?

Are you aware that Americans pay twice as much per-capita in medical costs, roughly $4,000 per person compared to others covered by “socialized” medical systems.

Are you aware that private U.S. insurance companies on average take 14 percent in administrative costs, that’s just paper work costs to handle the behemoth that US healtcare has become.

America’s for-profit healthcare does not match up with market myths about efficiency and service. Instead it is marked by lack of choice and massive corporate welfare.

Sure America is great and I consider myself lucky that I was born here, still I do not let that cloud my judgement or engage in knee jerk bashing of other nations or peoples culture. So the French do not embrace air conditioning, who cares? When I was an officer in the Army my offices in Germany did not have air conditioning, neither did my quarters or those of my men, we understood it was a cultural thing and didn’t whine about it.

I enjoy reading your board from time to time, I use it mainly to improve my French skills and for the most part just lurk, but this is one topic I couldn’t resist sharing my input.

Regards,

CA

Concerned American, I cannot speak for where YOU live, but here in Texas NO ONE is turned away from a hospital. Ambulances come straight across the border from Mexico and dump off people--and we don;t turn them away either.

Hospitals in the US are prohibited from deny critical care to whomsoever needs it. The fact that they are arriving in an ambulance leads me to believe that this is emergency care.

Did you know that the leading cause of personal bankruptcies in the US is hospital bills? They won’t turn you away but by God they will follow you up for payment.

I too have intimate knowlledge of our health care system and I will take IT any day over what passed for health care in France over the last 3 weeks.

Same here. But the French case was compounded by unseasonal weather conditions and lack of air conditioning systems.

And yes, the grass is greener in Dallas. Because we water it. We also cool the patients in the summer and keep them warm in the winter.

I have been to Dallas several times, but was irked by the fact that I had to travel to the next county just to get a bottle of wine. I do love San Antonio ;)

I’m from Minnesota.

Regards,

CA

More liberal propaganda, Heny Penny the sky is falling. Not only does EVERYONE have a right to emergency service at a hospital regardless of ability to pay, but also there is a little thing call Medicaid that every working American pays 1.5% in payroll tax to. This IS health care for the POOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. GET A CLUE. A bet the bleeding heart liberals never even seen a poor person.

ConcernedAmerican - I don’t understand your point. There are many people in America without health care, you’re right, but no one in America goes without hospital services. The Americans who have insurance are all paying for the ones who don’t have insurance. If you don’t believe me, check any large hospital’s financial records, and search for the term “indigent care.” No one in America suffers from lack of care, whether insured or not. Americans are as healthy as anyone on the planet. As far as cost is concerned, America’s average salary and average poverty level is also much higher than that of other countries, and many drug and equipment manufacturers charge Americans more, but charge other countries less, like developing countries. You should be proud that America never turns away anyone from a hospital, and proud that America indirectly subsidizes healthcare for the rest of the world.

CA, regret you were unaware of either Tony’s Wine Warehouse &istro (owned and operated by French emigres) or Sigel’s, vendors of fine wines.  Both deep in the heart of Dallas.  If they would not have what you require, there are the numerous grocery store wine &eer sections available.

No, the majority of people being hauled in via abulance are not emerency cases.

Must concur with our gracious host that discussing the American health system

does not pertain to his original thoughts.  Thank you for your patience DF.

CA: Like I mentioned before 40 million Americans are without health insurance, how many French can claim such a prestigious honor?

This sounds a lot like the “every Frenchman/Canadian/etc has FREE medical coverage” canard. There is no free lunch. French citizens pay exorbitantly high taxes to get that health care, drug benefits, etc. Instead of laughing at the plight of Americans who choose to buy their prescription drugs in Canada, Canadian citizens should be absolutely up in arms that their taxes are subsidizing Americans’ drugs.

CA:Are you aware that private U.S. insurance companies on average take 14 percent in administrative costs, that’s just paper work costs to handle the behemoth that US healtcare has become.

And what overwhelming percentage of the French government bureaucracy is devoted to managing the huge entitlement programs there?

Please. You are comparing apples to oranges. You cannot get something for nothing. Providing and managing health care costs money.

BEN

CA - “But the French case was compounded by unseasonal weather conditions...”

Yep. But I also read a statement from a French Government Minister, when the toll stood at 3000, that this was not very significant because it was “only” 300 more than normal…

My grandparents were very poor people. Both grandmothers lived into their 90’s. They did not suffer for lack of health care. As they got older both grandmothers required increasing amounts of medication. They weren’t turned away for lack of money from a doctor, hospital, or pharmacy (where you get medicines).

The state payed for most of their treatments. They had a very small amount they needed to pay out of pocket, somewhere between $3 - $5, per doctor visit and per presription refill.

They both also lived in public housing for the elderly. The state paid most of the rent and they paid a certain % of their monthly social security. They were also eligible for meals as well.

Until they became elderly and retired both sets of grandparents had contributed to social security because they were hard working people all their working lives. They were able to live in low rent apartments when they were working. However, when they retired they could no longer even afford low rent housing. They had no savings, no house. However, they did just fine in their old age.

They weren’t on the streets and they didn’t suffer because they couldn’t afford doctors or medicines. I think our state and federal geovernments have excellent programs to take care of those who can’t afford to take care of themselves.

Socialized medicene: Why would you ever entrust your health to the government? There is a signifigant conflict of interest, all you do is cost them money.

And because the bills are being paid by the government, it decides that it can tell you how to live your life. After all, if something happens because you are not taking care of yourself, the government will end up paying for it.

Could you imagine being told what to eat for your own good?

This exchange of experiences and opinions was quite an education for this Greek doctor. Thank you people for taking the time to write down what you know. Reading you I have learned a lot about the US health care system. While working here in Greece I had always the annoying sensation that our health care system was devised primarily to help the doctors and other civil servants make a living and that the occasional cured patient was just a by-product of that original goal. We have air conditioning in 90% of the hospitals though.

My father is a physician in a public health hospital in the US.  He works long, difficult days long, running from one emergency to another.  He tells me most patients feel little responsibility for their health.  Many make highly questionable lifestyle decisions which result in crises for which they feel no responsibility.  They generally see no reason to change their behavior once the crisis has passed.  The state picks up the bill for the massive health care charges they run up.  No one is ever turned away.

Incidentally, he works in Louisiana, whose summers consist of exactly the sort of weather that killed France’s thousands.  I need not add that thousands do not die each year, alone and neglected, in Louisiana’s summer heat.

On a related note, he has patients who can afford private health insurance but see little point in paying for it when state-funded care is so readily available.

I experienced the national health care system in Canada.  The quality of health care in the United States is significantly better.  And for the poor there are many options.  When I had a health emergency in graduate school in the United States, for which the bill would have been impossible for me to pay, the private hospital that treated me picked up part of the bill because my income was low.  They took excellent care of me, knowing before my treatment began that I would not pay the entire bill.  My physician was the best oncologist in the city.

IN YOUR FACT = IN YOUR FACE

CA

I work for a high volume bankrupcy attorney.  The main reason people file BK is change of income.  Yes, medical bills are a contributing factor since you have to list all your debt; however I have rarely seen anyone file primarily because of medical bills.

I would like to know where this statistic of “millions of Americans going to Canada to get their perscriptions filled” comes from.  Are millions of Americans crossing the border to do this or is this online?

Also, as mentioned by Mr. Frogman, his point was to show us a collassal failure on the part of France’s medical system.  11,000 people died in two weeks, and that is absolutely ridiculas.  Heat stroke has nothing to one’s tolerance to high temperatures.  It is an accelerated condition that occurs to prolonged exposure to heat and when the body becomes too dehydrated.  It is a nasty, nasty way to die, yet it is so easy to prevent.  Where were the civil servants?  What sort of action were they taking?

Here in Texas, there are plenty of communities that can not afford AC.  However, during the summer months there numerous public announcements on how to avoid heat stroke.  There are charities, city officials, etc who will deliver free fans to those who need them.  The local fire department in Austin, for example, will also go door to door and check in folks, especially senior citizens, in low income communities.  Many of fans delivered are donated from Sears and The Home Depot.  Drinking lots of water (gatorade helps too) and a couple of fans can make the difference between life and death.  Sure you will be uncomfortable without AC, but you will live.  Very simple measures could have prevented such deaths.  Again, where were the “civil servants?” What exactly are they paid for?

“may someone explains me the “AC system” please ?  for i can understand the meaning of this sentence :)”

As no one has yet been so kind as to answer Dann’s question, I will clarify: AC is an acronym for “air conditioning”, a concept that should actually be called “air cooling” as very few AC systems actually “condition” the air. We of the english-speaking world are sometimes over-fond of acronyms, which can get unintentionally hilarious when two well known groups or concepts adopt the same sets of initials (such as WWF being either the World Wrestling Foundation or the World Wildlife Fund.)

I used to work in healthcare cost and utilization analysis. The 40 million uninsured Americans have nothing to do with French health care. As a side point, I’d like to note that the uninsured (like me) still have access to health care, and it’s free, if you’re poor. (Poor in America mean an income of less than $16,000 for a family of 3.) In addition, most of these people are between ages 18 and 40, and the bulk of them are men. They don’t usually need insurance.

I would rather be paying fee-for-service in America than getting ‘free’ health care from any socialist system I’m aware of. I value my health, and my doctor values my money. In a socialist system, where the doc gets my money no matter what quality of service I get, there seems to be some sort of disconnect. I don’t mean to disparage the professional ethics of any healthcare provider working in a socialist system, but in my experiance the profit motive is much more motivating than social duty.

As far as drug research goes, America isn’t the only country with a large pharmaceutical research component; the Swiss and British both have large drug industries - that makes, what, nearly 2% of the countries in the world?

I’ve been told by MD’s that heat stroke is hard to recognize if you’ve never seen it before. Also, these were really abnormal temperatures in Europe. I’m not really surprised by the lack of AC in homes; here in Seattle, which has a climate like Britian, AC is rare, and only used by those who have it in their homes an average of 6 days per year. I have a friend with a $3,000,000 home - he built it without AC. However, I can’t imagine building a hospital or office building without good AC. I think the inflated price of electricty in France might have had something to do with that.

Oh shucks, one last thing: My cousin does research on cancer treatment. she informs me that it costs A BILLION (not a million) dollars to bring a chemotherapy drug to the public. And do these companies ever get a thank you note?

?SEVEN MILLION people living in France without access to the previous health care system?

This is perfectly true. At that time the ?40 million Americans don?t have insurance? line was already popular.

Maybe the American system is not good, maybe socialism is the right thing, I don?t know.

But I would like to give my own experience of the French ?so generous? public hospital.

At that time, I didn?t have any health insurance.

I had my nose broken in a violent shock with someone else?s head. My nose was bleeding from a large cut on the bridge. I was dizzy from the shock, a friend of mine took me to the hospital, to the emergency room?

The nurse there told me I had to wait (patients with insurance had priority). So I stood 3 hours. When I asked the nurse for a tissue or something to sponge my nose and stop the bleeding she answered me she couldn?t do anything until a physician had seen me. So I used my shirt ! Yes ! my own shirt, there, in the emergency room. The floor was stained with blood. Everybody was staring at me but no nurse no physician nobody cared. It was weird because I was inside the hospital, but not really. So close but not there yet. Without that health insurance, it was like I was invisible. A second class citizen.

Finally a nurse came to me and drove me to a physician. He just touched my nose : ?yes ! It?s broken, but here, we don?t have the equipment to see how bad it is, your going to have to go to another hospital and then go to see a specialist? Actually, I just needed x-rays !

Then he let me in the arms of the nurse (well, she was very kind, at least). She put a few strips on my cut and I went away.

A few weeks later I received the bill from them.

That hospital is near Vincennes, a suburb of Paris.

The last time I went to an emergency room, it was early in the morning, this summer (I have now an health insurance), I found nobody there. Fortunately, it was not really an emergency (just a bad conjunctivitis that kept me awake all night) but there was nothing except a board with this written on it : ?come back later?

That hospital is the Hôpital Bichat-Claude Bernard in Paris.

Now, everybody has to know our social security system has a huge deficit. It is stretched to the maximum (that explains the heat mortality of this summer and the lack of personnel). But somebody is going to have to pay. Socialist or not.