Peace And Hate • Paix Et Haine

Fired from France by the dissident frogman

In my book, anybody putting a gun in the hands of his 5 years old son or strapping an explosive belt around her 10 years old daughter is not fighting for freedom, resisting oppression, showing resolve or absolute despair. Certainly not absolute despair. It's in our genes, probably ever since we slowly and painfully extirpated ourselves from the primeval reptilian mud to follow the long path of evolution from a mammalian-reptile, to protect our progeny. And in the most casual up to the worst desperate situations, this is one of the primary things we focus on. Magic of gregariousness, it works at the parents' but also at the group's level. Just observe the change of attitude of any decent woman who became a mother, of any decent man who became a father, of any decent social group whenever there are newborns and children around. Observe the heightened state of alert, attention and care. Observe how women concentrate on the young while the men stay on the fringe, watching for predators. This is vital. This is the survival of the group. We watch over them, against every kind of predator. For any given parents and group to successfully and repeatedly overcome this instinctive behavior and voluntarily put their offspring at risk, it does not take resolve, pride or despair but a mental pathology, a religious or political fanaticism. It takes pure, evil hatred that's beyond any justification. And beyond any redemption. You're very welcome to display and distribute the banner freely. Please head on to the Propaganda Bureau to get the banner(s) and instructions. This banner is born out of a visit at Little Green Footballs' Palestinian Child Abuse slideshow and my disgust in front of the Palestinian pedocides -- If you allow me the neologism -- both of their own children and those of Israel. No redemption.

Dans mes petits papiers, quiconque place une arme dans les mains de son fils de 5 ans ou une ceinture d'explosifs à la taille de sa fille de 10 ans, n'est pas quelqu'un qui combat pour la liberté, qui montre sa résolution ou son désespoir absolu. Certainement pas son désespoir absolu. Car il est dans nos gènes, probablement depuis que nous nous sommes lentement et péniblement extirpés de la boue reptilienne originelle pour suivre le long chemin de l'évolution depuis un reptile mammalien, de protéger notre progéniture. Et dans les situations les plus banales comme les plus désespérées, c'est l'une des choses sur lesquelles nous concentrons principalement notre attention. Magie du grégarisme, cela fonctionne au niveau des parents, mais aussi du groupe. Observez simplement les changements d'attitude de toute femme convenable devenue mère, de tout homme convenable devenu père ou de tout groupe social décent, dès lors que se trouvent nouveaux-nés et enfants aux environs. Observez l'état d'alerte, d'attention et de soin élevé. Observez comment les femmes se concentrent sur les jeunes alors que les hommes restent en périphérie, surveillant l'éventuelle apparition de prédateurs. C'est vital. C'est une question de survie pour le groupe. Nous veillons sur eux, contre tous types de prédateurs. Pour que n'importe quels parents ou groupe donné arrive à dépasser continuellement ce comportement instinctif avec succès et à mettre volontairement sa progéniture en danger, il n'y faut pas de la résolution, de la fierté ou du désespoir, mais une pathologie mentale ou un fanatisme politique ou religieux. Il y faut une haine pure et maléfique, au-delà de toutes justifications. Et au-delà de toute rédemption. Vous êtes invités à afficher et distribuer cette bannière librement. Veuillez vous diriger vers le Bureau de la Propagande pour récupérer bannière(s) et instructions -- Une version française est disponible. Cette bannière est née d'une visite au diaporama des maltraitance Palestiniennes sur les enfants de Little Green Footballs et de mon dégoût devant les pédocides -- si vous m'autorisez ce néologisme -- palestiniens, autant sur leurs propres enfants que sur ceux d'Israël. Pas de rédemption.

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» PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE from the voodoo lounge
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Tracked on October 25, 2003 11:54 AM

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This via the dissident frogman.... [Read More]

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Thanks to the dissident frogman.... [Read More]

Tracked on October 25, 2003 08:53 PM

» Peace And Hate from Captain's Quarters
The Dissident Frogman posts on the the depravity of putting guns and bombs into the hands of your own 5-year-old and training him to kill, or especially to commit suicide: In my book, anybody putting a gun in the hands [Read More]

Tracked on October 25, 2003 09:52 PM

» This about sums it up... from Spartacus
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Tracked on October 26, 2003 04:53 AM

» What did your child dress up as for Halloween? from Matthew J. Stinson | weblog
The dissident frogman's latest banner features the most frightening costumes in the world: Why are they so frightening? Because they're real.... [Read More]

Tracked on November 1, 2003 02:10 AM

» To sum up from .:/One Little Victory\:.
The Dissident Frogman has an excellent take on violence in the Middle East, and what certain promotors of continued attacks are and are not, here. He's also got new material in the Propaganda Bureau (scroll down). Speak softly, Frogman, and... [Read More]

Tracked on November 4, 2003 02:29 AM

» Peace in the Middle East? from Ethereal Trades
Another Banner from my favorite Frogman! See the Featured Sites section on the right. While we here in the United... [Read More]

Tracked on November 24, 2003 11:48 PM

» Peace And Hate from Captain's Quarters
The Dissident Frogman posts on the the depravity of putting guns and bombs into the hands of your own 5-year-old and training him to kill, or especially to commit suicide: In my book, anybody putting a gun in the hands... [Read More]

Tracked on March 9, 2004 06:26 PM

» 10 year old Palestinian transports bomb from Hundredth Monkey
This is child abuse. The individuals who were involved in this are not fit to make demands of any sort. The individuals behind the glorification of suicide-murder in school textbooks, the ‘leader’ who snidely refused every legitimate chance... [Read More]

Tracked on March 16, 2004 01:17 AM

Comments

I've been a reader of LGF for a long time. I've seen these pictures pile up. Eventually the stack got too high so he made a slide show. Every other day another would come it . Lately not so many since the IDF started their open season on Hamas, there has been a scarcity. I guess Mom and Dad have other things to worry about rather then dressing up their little ones in bomb vests and hand grenades.

Posted by: Papertiger | October 24, 2003 07:19 PM

I've always known this to be true and I've seen pictures like this before. But everytime I see these types of pictures it makes me question humanity and how we can allow them to continue. It makes me ill.

Posted by: Mashiki | October 25, 2003 07:50 AM

I am an Arab and I somewhat agree with what you put on your website. But, the thing that I hate is that when stuff like this is actually posted on the internet, it makes all Arabs look bad. I do not like the fact that your website WILL make people hate Arabs more. That's not fair. I do not carry an AK-47 and kill people. Hence, you must also look at why the kids have guns. If the Israeli gov't didn't steal land and illegally demolish houses with bulldozers, then you wouldn't have parents and their kids with guns. What about the American lady that visited Israel and stood in front of the house of an Arab resident that was about to get demolished to stop the Israeli gov't from running over it? The Israeli gov't ran over her, an AMERICAN (and they knew it), and the house, and they didn't get in trouble for it by the U.S. It was talked about briefly in the news and that's it. NOW, that's BULLSHIT. You see kids & parents with guns because they are giving a sign saying, they are not going to give up. They are not going to put up with Israel's bullshit government. It's not even a gov't. It's a dictatorship. Remember, kids only started having guns when Israel started to kill Arabs, steal land, and rename Palestine to Israel (ever since everything started in 1948). Before that, there was peace. By the way, it was Palestine before Israel. If you read up on your history, it was Palestine 2,000 years before the Bible was even created. Yes, Arabs (not all of them) do things that are wrong like bomb buildings, etc. But, you have to ask yourself, what led them to do that? It is because they can't live their own lives the way they used to. Israel's gov't does not care for Arabs and kills them all the time. Israel is stuck so far up U.S.'s ass, that the U.S. only gives them a slap on the wrist no matter what Israel does wrong. If Israel wasn't soo selfish in 1948 when they wanted to steal Palestine, then none of this shit would have happened. LOOK AT BOTH SIDES OF THE SITUATION!!!!

Posted by: Joe | October 25, 2003 05:47 PM

"Joe":

I'll try to make it simple considering that there's very little substance in your naive (well, I hope it's naive) diatribe - and I currently have little time to deal with naive diatribes:

The quote is from Golda Meir, and I believe she knew what she was talking about. Consequently, I’m not making, as you put it, “all Arabs look bad”: some Arabs make all Arabs look bad (even though the real issue is not so related to Arabs than it is to Muslims.) Those who put guns in the hands of children, explosive belts around their brainwashed youth, those who murder men, women and children simply because they're Jews or Christians or “too” moderate Muslims, those who murder, rape and oppress other Arabs simply because they took the power by force and keep it the same way, those whose only aim in this life is to take over the world and force their religion upon it. Those who hijack airliners and use them as a weapon to perpetrate mass murder.

I'm just observing and waiting for an honest and firm condemnation of these thugs, by official and individuals in the Muslim world. I'm waiting for the people protesting in the streets to stop terrorism and oppression. I’m waiting for the uprising of Arab populations with the intent of toppling their tyrants, moving towards liberal democracy and take their place in the XXIth century as honored, respected and respectful members of the world community.
So far, I heard very little adversaries (they exist but their voices get lost) and too many virulent supporters.
Draw your own conclusions, but don't come blaming me for the vision this community (at large) send back to the world.
I believe in individual responsibility “Joe”, so here’s something you may want to think about: you come here, feel concerned about the fact that you're not carrying a gun and killing people and therefore don't want to be assimilated with terrorists (which is all in your honor. Guess what? I feel the same pertaining to the 25% of the French who wished the victory of Saddam) yet, after this rightful concern you spend the rest of your (long) rant justifying terrorism and child abuses. Now... Who do you think is making Arabs look bad? And what do you think YOU can do? Keep championing terrorism or join me and denounce it unconditionally? Food for thought “Joe”.

About this whole Israel/Palestine issue, my thought in a few words:
End terrorism. Then we'll talk. Period.

I take it the "American lady" you mention is our silly spiteful friend Corrie. I'm sorry "Joe" but you hit the wrong place if you thought you could impress me with such an argument. Get your facts straight: the Palestinian propaganda has been debunked, this was an accident. I couldn’t say it was a sad accident though.
If you want my intimate conviction on this, I'd say the "lady" got what she looked for - and somehow, what she deserved. Period.

About history, "Joe" you could use some extra classes. Particularly on the Bible issue. Also, you may want to check this. Could help you a lot:
http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/meaning.html

Finally - and that's what sickens me the most, to be honest - you apparently failed to read the content of the post or get the point. Let me summarize:

Nothing - I do mean NOTHING AT ALL - justifies dressing a baby in camo and hang up a hand-grenade around his or her neck. Nothing.

And THAT'S not something I'm going to argue about or take back.

Posted by: the dissident frogman | October 25, 2003 06:50 PM

Let me rebut the one argument you missed from Joe, DF:

Israel is a dictatorship? Hmm. If so, it's the first one where they hold regular elections, have multiple political parties (including one representing Israeli Arabs), power changes between political parties as a result of these elections, and legislate through a Parliament. Also, it's the first one that has a free press and a free-market economy.

Now, let me count how many Arab countries have any of these.

Wait ... I'm still trying to think of one. Oh -- wait -- one Arab country is having municipal elections. For the first time. Ever. Other than that, a great big goose egg.

You want Arabs to have a better image? They need to quit blowing up civilians in shopping centers and buses, and the ones that don't do that need to quit being apologists for the ones that do. And how about learning a little history, while you're at it? The Arabs used Palestine as an invasion point against Israel in 1948 and again in 1967. Maybe if they'd just left Israel alone, the Palestinians wouldn't have the problems they do now. Spouting anti-Semitic slurs and paranoid conspiracuy theories don't help the Arab public image, either.

Posted by: Captain Ed | October 25, 2003 10:05 PM

Captain Ed:

Agreed fully. But to be honest, I don't even take up those kinds of arguments anymore and I willingly ignored it this time as well.

I now have a zero tolerance policy for empty imprecations.

Israel is a dictatorship, Bush=Hitler, etc., etc., etc. & ad nauseam: this is complete nonsense, vacuous "catchy" sentences only good to enliven anti-war protests and anti-globo summits.

In any decent debate, you have to set some limits below which it's worthless to argue. It's OK to debunk them on moral grounds, but when they come up with pure inventions, made up “facts” or wishful thinking such as this one, well... I have neither time nor patience to play kid’s games with them on their senseless propaganda.

Having said that, I’m glad you did. Considering how some people tend to believe the last one who talked, it’s probably worth answering such obvious lies – not to convince the preacher, as he won’t listen anyway, but to impede the conversions.

It's just that I feel so tired sometimes...

Posted by: the dissident frogman | October 25, 2003 10:27 PM

Captain Ed & D.F.Your both better men then I. Right after I read, {Hence, you must also look at why the kids have guns. } , Joe lost my interest altogether.

Posted by: Papertiger | October 26, 2003 03:59 AM

With reference to Joe's post, I believe he is rehashing Palestinian propaganda when he says that Palestine existed 2000 years before Israel. At various times, I have read Palestinian claims that they are the descendants of the pre-Hebrew indigenous peoples of Palestine/Israel--Philistines, from whom the name Palestine may be derived, and Canaanites--whereas the Jews are merely usurpers. There is no legitimate scholarship that supports this propaganda. In fact, at least two genetic studies indicate a close relationship between Palestinian Arabs and Jews based on non-recombinant Y-Chromosome haplotypes (i.e. paternal inheritance). The likelihood is that the current-day Palestinians are largely descendants of those Jews who had not already formed communities outside of Judea between the 1st century BC and 1st century AD and who did not leave Judea after either the conquest of Vespasian and Titus or the Bar Kokhba rebellion. They converted to Islam (and absorbed some new population elements represented by specific southern Arab Y-chromosome haplotypes not found in Jewish populations) with the Arab conquest of the Levant.

Posted by: eric | October 27, 2003 03:24 AM

eric... interesting theory...
now my dear frogman... regarding the flash... the black / white colors and the excesive movement i think make this flash somewhat more difficult to visually "enjoy" than the previous 2 that you authored.
nevertheless I am keeping it for now on my page (as I do with the other 2), and will see how I feel about it in a few days...

rafi
http://trafael.tripod.com (add /iraq.html to see the other 2 flashes)

Posted by: rafi | October 28, 2003 09:20 AM

I got a joke for all of you... what started the Middle East conflict? Sharon and Arafat arguing over the best way to blow up a bus full of school children.

Both sides are guilty of horrid acts apon humanity. If the IDF pulled out of Palestine there would still be war. If the acts of terror against Israelis stopped there would still be war. Why? The Palestinians have no reason to trust Israel and vice versa. The only end to violence is for Israel and Palestine to grow up, stop acting like kindergarteners, and learn to share. For starters, IMHO, I would stop the building of the wall. Did man learn anything from the Berlin Wall?

He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest benefactor the world has yet known. -- Sir Richard Burton

Posted by: daniel | December 2, 2003 04:57 AM

Well... I quite don't see the pertinence of your point I'm afraid.
The issue at hand has nothing to do with "trust" or child plays - but I feel honestly tired to go on and on such basic points.
Equating the IDF to Arafat's death squads is not only morally wrong but also utterly nonsensical. Put a stop on moral equivalence and take 5 seconds to consider the following: if the Israeli government and the IDF were using the same methods and following the same goals as the Palestinians, do you honestly believe there would still be one single Palis ALIVE?

Kind of doubtful if you ask me.

Anyway, all I can possibly answer to somebody coming up with naive statements such as "Hamas terrorists should grow up and learn to share" is a deep and disillusioned *sigh*.
What's the weather like in Dreamland today?

Finally, I don't know about you, but as a French who grew up under NATO’s protection, I did learn one thing from the Berlin Wall: it was certainly a hard price to pay for the Berliners, who were on the frontline, but it saved Western Europe from the Communist horror.

If anything, it was a clear statement: stop here or face the consequences.

And I'm still here to tell you that it worked.

Posted by: the dissident frogman | December 2, 2003 12:35 PM

Frogman: THANK YOU for being here on the Internet!

Posted by: Chaya Eitan | December 27, 2003 06:40 PM